Re: [nbos] [FM8] Question about Booleans
"Larathiel the Death Elf"
Fri Jul 20th, 2007
Don,

That sounds somewhat promising actually. So could You then zoom in, fill
what's on the screen, pan over, fill the next region and repeat until Your
entire landmass is filled at a reasonably smooth resolution? Or would doing
so cause there to be multiple polygons instead of a single one?

-Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
On Behalf Of Donald Ziegler
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:11 PM
To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
Subject: Re: [nbos] [FM8] Question about Booleans

Michael,

FM8 has a Floodfill tool that will create a single polygon in the shape of
the VISIBLE borders. It will not reproduce the seams of the combined
polygons that can only be seen when the object is selected.

Some caveats:
If half of the landmass is offscreen - the fill will end at the screen's
edge.

The more closely you are zoomed to the object - the truer the fill will
approximate the borders of the object.

The farther out the zoom the rougher the approximation of the object's
borders - though this can be remedied somewhat by the Flush Against tool
which will help fill the gaps made by a rough fill by molding the fill's
edge more closely to the object's edge.

If you leave other objects (labels, mountains, etc.) visible on top of your
continent, the tool will fill around those objects - leaving a hole in the
new floodfill polygon. This is a useful feature - but not if you want a
solid object as your final result.

Hopes this helps.

Don



> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:17:46 -0400
> From: "Larathiel the Death Elf" <Larathiel-at-OGL.org>
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [FM8] Question about Booleans
> To: <nbossoftware-at-nbos.com>
> Message-ID: <007001c7ca52$a2da8f30$e88fad90$-at-org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Christopher:
>
> I had some hand-drawn sketches of my campaign world's continents set as a
> backdrop and was going in with the fractal landmass tools creating shapes
> overtop my sketches to make the coastlines have some actual "character".
> What I found peaked my inspiration the most was not simply creating one or
> two large fractal polygons but rather overlaying many adjacent or
> overlapping ones. Once I would come up with a shape I like for my
> continents, I wanted to be able to permanently merge all of the shapes
> into
> a single object so that only the outermost vertices and lines would
> remain.
> For lakes and seas I figured I would simply then overlay polygons of
> different colors over top of the continents later on. In otherwords, the
> boolean shapes I was trying to create would not have had holes in them.
>
> However, after performing the boolean operation, and even after trying to
> clone the boolean to a new object, all of the lines and vertices that were
> overlapping one another still remained. Thus, when I would click on that
> object, I'd see all that internal "junk". Now, this might not seem like a
> big deal as it can be ignored I suppose, but my primary work that I do is
> as
> a 3D artist and I just can't abide seeing such sloppiness in my work. It
> breaks my creative mood and immersion when I can see the underlying nuts
> and
> bolts (so to speak).
>
> I attempted to take each of the polys comprising my continents and
> breaking
> them then deleting the extra vertices and fusing them together but not
> only
> was this extremely time consuming and flaky (compared to performing a
> target
> weld of vertices like I would in 3d studio max) but I recall still ending
> up
> with internal lines crisscrossing the final. (I think this became an
> actual
> functional rather than aesthetic issue when I told FM7 to apply an edge
> color to the landmasses and I found it edging the internals too.)
>
> In any event, the amount of frustration I felt finally choked the life out
> of the stream of inspiration that had been flowing at the time and I just
> put that project on the back-burner and moved on to other ones. Still, I
> do
> need to produce some more detailed maps of my campaign world soon so with
> the release of FM8 I wondered if I should get my hopes up or not.
>
> Thanks for asking,
>
> -Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Rodrigues Macias
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:38 PM
> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [FM8] Question about Booleans
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> What were you trying to do with Boolean shapes that was causing you grief?
> Maybe there is a work-around.
>
> For example, if you work with poly-lines instead of closed shapes, it is
> now
> much easier to merge them. Just define a small square grid, turn on the
> "Snap to Square Grid" feature, and you can easily align the end-points so
> that you can merge the lines together. When you are ready to convert it to
> a
> closed shape you can clone the combined lines to a polygon.
>
> Cheers,
> Christopher
>
>
>
> At 02:56 AM 7/18/2007, you wrote:
> >I've barely used the old copy of FM7 I have because of the intense
> dislike
> I
> >have for how boolean shapes are handled. Namely that after merging two
> or
> >more objects (objects without holes mind You), internal vertices and
> lines
> >were not removed. While this would allow the boolean to be broken apart
> if
> >desired, I never could find a way to permanently join the two and have
> the
> >internal vertices disappear. I also seem to recall that it was a real
> bear
> >to weld vertices together.
> >
> >Has this functionality been addressed in FM8? I'd like to trade up to
> the
> >new version before I take another stab at mapping with it (CC's
> interface
> is
> >more God-forsaken than even any of the 3D modeling tools I work with)
> but
> I
> >simply can't get past my hang-up about how booleans were handled in FM7.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >-Michael
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:37:35 -0400
> From: "Joe Frazier, Jr" <jfrazierjr-at-nc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [FM 8] : Bevelled Cliffs
> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
> Message-ID: <46A01FEF.7000404-at-nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Christopher Rodrigues Macias wrote:
>
> >You two are geniuses. I just had to play with this.
> >
> >I drew a simple 'continent' shape and zoomed-in on a portion of it, then
> used the poly path tool to draw a line over the section of coast where I
> wanted the cliff. Fractalised this to factor 3, then applied a 'flat'
> bevel using the default settings.
> >
> >Then I wanted to mask the 'inside' half of the poly path so that it
> looked like a cliff instead of a ridge, so I cloned the poly path and
> turned off the bevel on the copy, then moved and fiddled with it a bit to
> create the mask. The final result is shown in cliff3.png.
> >
> >Very slick. Takes a little tweaking to get the mask right, but still took
> only a tiny fraction of the time required for the gradient fill cliffs on
> the Eberron map.
> >
> >Woohoo!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Ok, for those of you who might be interested, here is my cliff example
> attached and rough steps to create. It took a while of playing with
> different effects to get it the way I liked it, but I am happy with the
> result. Since I am "disassembling" my map, I hope I didn't miss any
> steps.
>
> 1. Turn on Map->Proximity Snap
> 2. Use the Fractal Line tool to create the "inside" of the cliffs
> (ie, the part that is NOT supposed to be cliff face.) This can be
> as big as you want, but just a small section enough to work with
> is fine.
> 3. Use the new Flood Fill tool and it will generate a new polygon
> (with a LOT of nodes)
> 4. Clone the new polygon.
> 5. Move the top most polygon out of the way
> 6. Set the bottom polygon to a fill. In my case, I chose the dark
> gray fill "stone" look from the Classic set.
> 7. Set the scale and brightness to your liking
> 8. Set the Blur style to Feather and just a TINY bit on the width
> slider (I chose around 1/3 of the way to the first tick on the
> scale)
> 9. Now, with the second polygon, I chose Blur with a Feather style
> set to the 4th tick (about 1/3 the entire scale)
> 10. I also chose Shadow with a Inner Shadow style, again around the
> 4th tick on the scale in black.
> 11. Now, move the top copy over the bottom one and position.
>
> I think I also changed the scale of the top copy a bit (perhaps 5-10%
> .) You can also play with moving the nodes on one side or the other of
> your top polygon to get the inner shadow to be the way you want it. I
> ended up with the top polygon roughly the same height as the bottom one,
> but around 2 times wider.
>
> Enjoy
>
> Joe
>
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