Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
Andrew Staples
Fri Oct 5th, 2012
Hi Dennis, good to see you on this list as well.

Number of people (and livestock) is likely to be imited by the number
of polygons rather than 'realism'. The reality would depend on time of
day and time of year (I'd expect more people when the caravans are in
Tashal).

As to photorealism, well, I'm not intimate with the software you're
using - I think you said DAZ Studio, Bryce and Sketchup; I use Poser
Pro, Vue Infinite and Zbrush. But, in general, how photoreal you get
will depend on the lighting models available to you, and the shaders
you use.

As a minimum, you'll need some kind of indirect lighting, such as
global illumination or, better, radiosity. I don't know if any of the
software you use has that as an option, but Studio does have the
Reality plug-in to push scenes through the Lux render engine. That's
an unbiased renderer (ie, it uses real-world physics, rather than
simplified models of physics and shortcuts like most render engines
today), so it'll take time to render.

As to shaders, it's unlikely that anytthing will work straight out of
the box. You'll ned to do some research on the optical properties of
the materials you want (how much diffuse light, how much translucence,
how much specular and the like), then get down and dirty in the
material rooms of your scene-builders. In most cases, you'll have to
make compromises.

Oh. and while I mention dirty, you'll want to make sure your
materials have some dirt on them, and use bump or displacement maps to
remove most of the hard, straight lines and edges.

Once you've done all that, you'll want to play with your render
settings to make sure you've set your engine to include any advanced
shader techniques you're using but not ones you aren't (don't waste
valuable CPU resources). A touch of depth of field and a bit of film
grain will help as well. Use gamma correctioin if it's available to
you, postwork it if not.

Sit back, render away for anything betwwen 2-3 hours and 2-3 days, and
then see how well you did your shaders.

Those are the general tips for photorealism; not knowing your
software, I can't give you anything more specific. What I can tell you
is that setting all that up takes knowledge and time. Deciding where
to compromise takes skill. Most home users don't have enough
knowledge, time or skill to do it properly, which is why many people
dismiss home 3D as push-button art. An awful lot of it is. The more
you move towards photoreal or illustrative styles, the more of
yourself you put into it, the better the results.



On 4 October 2012 22:58, Dennisdutton <dennisdutton-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
> Discussion of concepts and sharing of ideas is all I was looking for, for
> instance how wide we're the streets, how tall we're the buildings, how many
> pigs and people in the streets, what is needed for it to be photorealistic
> considering I have, and like, mot of Bill Fleming's books.
>
>
> Khaire, Theoros Dennis
> Iereus ekathbolou Dionysus
> Demarkhos, Demos Hellenotamiai
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 12:41 PM, Doug Jessee <ldjessee-at-gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> (you probably didn't mean me, but I thought I would share my very limited
> experience with it)
>
> I dont do more than look at it and try to make something, then get
> distracted and never finish what I started.
>
> I talked to the original creators of it, before it got snatched up by
> Google, at my job at the time, and have always followed it since.
>
> I like that people share the hard work they did creating the models and have
> thrown a few models together to get something I wanted, but I wouldn't call
> it working with it.
>
> I find it much easier to work with than any other 3d tool, but I have only
> tried a few and never longer than a month or two at most.
>
> -Doug Jessee
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Dalton Calford <dcalford-at-distributel.ca>
> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds good – never had a chance to work with Sketchup, what is it like to
>> work with?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
>> On Behalf Of Whirlpool_1
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:18 PM
>>
>>
>> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
>> Subject: Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
>>
>>
>>
>> I have created some maps in Sketchup which I’m happy to share via DropBox.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Winterhaven (from D&D Keep on the Shadowfell)
>>
>> 2) Loudwater (from D&D Forgotten Realms campaign setting)
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, a couple of test/sample dungeons that I was expermineting with are
>> knocking around too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I posted the city maps on the wizards.com site a few years ago, and even
>> got a nice comment from Chris Perkins their Creative Manager. Never had
>> chance to do anymore, but I really fancied doing Fallcrest out of the 4E D&D
>> DMs Guide… then Waterdeep lol J.. Life got in the way as per usual J
>>
>>
>>
>> Let me know if you want a DropBox link posted to the board address.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Glynn
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dalton Calford
>> Sent: 04 October 2012 16:59
>> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
>> Subject: Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
>>
>>
>>
>> True, I was not saying to share the models, I was stating that the Daz3d
>> software is free and the models he has can be shared between the software he
>> has.
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason I was asking was that I already own a great deal of building
>> models and if I own the same ones he has, then I can use any creation he is
>> willing to share. As Daz is free, then anyone who wants to contribute
>> could also purchase the required models and work on the project. Since
>> most of the models are cheap on their own, if you are only working with a
>> few, the cost to become a contributor would likely be under $100, which is
>> far less than the cost of Bryce and other such packages.
>>
>>
>>
>> It all comes down to how accessible the material is and how steep the
>> learning curve is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dennisdutton
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:39 AM
>> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
>> Subject: Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
>>
>>
>>
>> Rong, daz is a commercial company that sells models, I don't think you can
>> upload to it without their revenew.
>>
>> Dennis Dutton
>>
>> Dennisdutton-at-yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Dalton Calford <dcalford-at-distributel.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have used Bryce and Daz3D but not for a few years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Daz is free and I believe you can share meshes between Bryce/Poser and
>> Daz.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure though as I have not done it for a few years.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dennisdutton
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:33 AM
>> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
>> Subject: Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm using Bryce 6, Poser 6 and Photoshop CS4 for this.
>>
>> I got a package of a dozen ground floors, a dozen upper floors, a dozen
>> roofs, etc. that can be used to make thousands of
>>
>> Georgian style buildings (from Zippy).
>>
>> My final results are in PDF format when I figure how to share them (the
>> later being the steepest of the learning curves).
>>
>> Khaire, Theoros Dennis
>>
>> Iereus ekathbolou Dionysus
>>
>> Demarkhos, Demos Hellenotamiai
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Dalton Calford <dcalford-at-distributel.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What software are you using? Which model meshes are you using?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am very interested in this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dustin Evermore
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:45 AM
>> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
>> Subject: Re: [nbos] 3D medieval city
>>
>>
>>
>> Yikes! Your font size frightened me. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Might I suggest putting it in a google drive and setting permission to
>> share it? Or if you use Dropbox you could drop it in your Public folder. In
>> each of these options, you can simply copy the link (URL) and paste it in an
>> email here. Both Google accounts and Dropbox accounts are free options.
>>
>>
>>
>> DE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 5:20 AM, Dennisdutton <dennisdutton-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I cannot send an attachment to this list, which is understandable, but if
>> I m to share I need a address to send to.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
>>
>>
>>
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--
Andrew Staples
E-mail: andy.staples-at-gmail.com
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