Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems
"Mike Oliver"
Sun Dec 10th, 2006
I don't know how complex orbital mathematics (mechanics?) is, but I
suspect it would be beyond the ordinary member of Joe Public. It is my
belief, from gaming experience, that the average player doesn't actually
recognise whether some of the science is inaccurate. For instance, in my
current game, I showed them a system diagram in AS with all-circular
orbital paths (VERY unusual, I suspect) and nobody mentioned it.

I don't even know if AS is capable of showing elliptical orbital paths.
I would LOVE to see detailed, astronomically accurate, 3D views of space
within AS but, until Ed and his colleagues can employ an astronomer who
has an intimate knowledge of 3D visual programming and doesn't want more
than a small financial nod, I suspect we may have a while to wait.
Meanwhile AS does almost everything I really need and I suspect a lot
more if only I had the courage to try to understand, write and implement
scripts. So thanks and congratulations to the NBOS boys.

In the long run, I suspect it is we Game Masters who have the desire -
the players just want a good scenario, well run and pretty to look at;
no need for scientific accuracy.

Cheers,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com
[mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com] On Behalf Of Robert Graham
Sent: 9 December 2006 11:57
To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems

The thing i don't get with all this is with no offense to nbos, Astro
doesn't exactly as far as I can tell simulate in itself the effects of
gravity etc on an orbit.

instead it takes in distance + orbital paramaters and works out the
orbital
path based from those.

so technically so long as the solarsystem view could be updated a little

further multipul systems should be possible, and it would be a -massive-

enhancement not only from the multipul star point of view.. but it would

allow the display of a planetary orbital system with out having to go in
and
view it...

one thing i find annoying when i'm working in astro is that I can't see
the
orbits of the moons etc which if i have two planets in close orbit can
mean
that hey look smack, those moons are gonna hit each other.. The Black
Sun
Engine which was designed for Nexus: The Jupiter Incident allows solar
system creation with everything in the system viewable in 3D at the same

time and by clicking on an object you can change your point of view to
that
item.

now i know Nexus was designed by a full blown studio uses direct x 8.1
and 9
subroutines lightwave 3d object importing etc etc but the part that I
like
of it is that i can see EVERYTHING in the solar system.

At a distance it just shows me the orbital lines + a symbol, as I zoom
in
dependent on distance i get the planet etc.. and well given as i said
it's a
full direct x program etc i can even get astroid fields but it would be
nice
to have something simular with Astro where you can see the moons in
orbit
around the planets etc on the orbital view.

-Rob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Oliver" <mike-oliver-at-blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <nbossoftware-at-nbos.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems


> I, too, enjoyed Traveller 2,300 (still have it) but now game under my
> own system, "Spacefarer". It is far less dependent on tables and dice
> rolling than most commercial systems. I very much "wing" my gaming
> sessions and, if somebody scores a hit on an opponent with a "modern"
> (1900 - whenever) weapon, they cause a light wound (minor impedence of
> normal activities), a serious wound (major impedence of normal
> activities needing substantial medical facilities) or death
> (self-explanatory?).
>
> The science, however, especially astronomical, is as sound as I can
make
> it.
>
> If you want the MegaTraveller orbital generation rules I can tell you
> what they are with the hope that somebody doesn't get upset about
> copyright and try to sue me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com
> [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Williamson
> Sent: 8 December 2006 13:33
> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems
>
> MIke,
>
> It can get very complicated very quickly. I don't have MegaTraveller.
> For my gaming purposes I've simplified it to the following rule:
stable
> orbits are 1/3 less than the separation and 3 times the separation.
> Which I think came from another GDW product, 2300AD. Which has been
> highly influential on my SciFi gaming. Though right now I'm mostly
> playing Battlelords of the 23rd Century, which is, as the name
implies,
> considerably more like Space Opera than it is like Hard Science.
>
> Dan.
>
> ___________________________________________________
> "Umm..."
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Oliver <mike-oliver-at-blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2006 5:13:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems
>
>
> When modelling multiple systems, one needs to be careful about planets
> passing between close doubles (etc.) proto-planetary materials could
> well have problems coagulating with such gravitational stresses.
> MegaTraveller has a neat system for determining what orbits would not
> contain planets under such circumstances. I don't know how accurate it
> might be (does anyone?) but it seems reasonable to me.
>
> Also, to get some ideas about the effects on habitable worlds orbiting
> such systems, Brian Aldis' "Heliconia" trilogy is invaluable and a
good
> read to boot.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com
> [mailto:nbossoftware-bounces-at-nbos.com] On Behalf Of NBOS Support
> Sent: 8 December 2006 08:59
> To: nbossoftware-at-nbos.com
> Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Binary Star Systems
>
> At 10:04 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>Ideally I'd like to be able to use the system display to see the two
> stars
>>orbiting each other and the planets each star individually and the
>>gravitational center to get a grand overview of the system.
>
> Thats something I'd like to do, but havent gotten a grip on the
physics
> of
> it yet. A binary star system isnt a problem to model... but through
in
> a
> third star and all bets are off :-)
>
>>Also, I'd like to see AU used as the display orbital distance for top
> level
>>children at least. Or is there anyway that I can change it in the
> display
>>manually?
>
> I _was_ working on AU being an option in the system data fields setup
as
>
> part of the next minor update, but for some reason ended up not adding
> in. The specific reason escapes me right now. But it is on my to-do
> list
> as quite a few people have asked for that.
>
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