Re: [nbos] [AS] Names, not just numbers.
"Mike Oliver"
Wed Oct 3rd, 2007
I understand what you're saying. T2300 was only the trigger that got me
going on the project. A number of other AS users expressed an interest
in having the T2300 star list mapped in AS2 and I said I'd do it. I
doubt any of them expected to wait quite this long for the result but
I'll finish it one year!

If the question of navigation stars is related mostly to what AS2 shows,
I follow your drift. Good luck with the effort - I'll be interested to
see how things go.

T2300 uses Gliese references and I downloaded the Gliese catalogue into
Cartes du Ciel which enabled me to identify the T2300 references with
their Bayer/Flamsteed references. CdC is a programme designed to allow
amateur astronomers to see the night sky at any time of the night from
their observatory position. It is therefore Earth-centred and not
designed to allow one to view the sky from a position in space far away
from Earth. It also provides the facility to run telescope mounts
remotely from a computer if they are fitted with motors. It's a truly
amazing piece of software - especially since it's freeware. There is a
very active forum on which you could ask about the facility to view the
universe from somewhere other than Earth. You never know.


Mike <>

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of Sam Orton
Sent: 02 October 2007 19:04
Subject: Re: [nbos] [AS] Names, not just numbers.

Mike Oliver <> wrote:
Hi Sam:

I'm doing something similar although my project is simply re-naming
stars by their constellation designations with letters of the Greek
alphabet and/or Flamsteed numbers or Bayer letters. It was instigated by
my looking at an old RPG called Traveller 2300 and I decided to try to
identify all the stars in the T2300 listing. It's proving a lengthy
process because I can't find the time to work on it at present but I'll

That's most of what I'm doing, although I'm going by existence of a
Bayer/Flamsteed designator than any particular game setting.

Are you determining "navigation stars" by their absolute magnitude,
detailed spectral classification or what? Obviously, very bright stars
as seen from Earth may well not be very bright when seen from a location
several hundred light years from Earth, unless they have bright absolute

That's what I'm working on now, trying to find a workable formula for
that. I'm looking into both. Bluer light scatters much faster in
atmosphere, are there any optics experts handy who know how scattering
by frequency works in vacuum?
I'm using absolute magnitude and spectral class both as guides, but when
it comes right down to it the problem has very little to do with
astronomy, it's an aesthetics and clarity issue in 3D cartography. If
too many stars are labeled in the display, it will be too busy and
confusing to be useful. Too few, and it won't tell you enough to be
useful. Those are gonna be the issues regardless of how accurate or
inaccurate the display distances are. So yeah, I want spectral class
(A0-M9 and 0-VI) and absolute magnitude as *guides*... but not as rules.

Not all the stars in the "within 1000 light years" listing are
identified by their Henry Draper catalogue numbers - some use other
catalogue ID's. Also, you may well find a few duplications (I did) and
beware of Wikipedia data; because it can be altered by contributors,
mistakes often occur. You're better off using something like or

I've noticed. But between HDs, HIPs, BDs, CoDs, CPDs... That catches
most of it. I have to hunt for the Glieses and Lalandes and etc, but
most of those are comparatively close. And yeah, I've found a few
duplicates. But keep in mind, I'm only taking about going through
perhaps 2000 or so of the 77,000+ bodies in the Kepner data. Most of the
rest of them don't *have* names, only listings in one or another
catalog. For game purposes, I'll probably use an address system of sorts
for known systems, mostly things fairly close in. For example, give a
system 104.2ly out from Sol in the direction of Sagitta the designation
SO1042 Sagittae. The SO is to say it's my modification, you have to look
at my notes to correlate it with other catalogs, and distance and
direction from Sol. That was picked out of the air, I have no idea
whether or not there's a system there, but you see the point. That will
at least make known systems helpful in finding one's way around.
As for sources, I'm using as many as I can find. Wikipedia is often a
starting point because it links to so many things. But yes, that's a two
edged sword. It links to both true and false. Sol Station has definitely
been my friend, but hunting is hard for anything they don't cover. I
checked the other link you gave me... wow. Thank you. Although I gotta
admit, I think I may be a little while learning my way around in it.

There is an excellent astronomical programme called Cartes du Ciel which
you can download from,
together with a whole raft of astronomical catalogues - I found it
invaluable when I did my Star Trek universe map.

Hmmm... again, amazing amounts of information, thank you. Does this
program 'see' in 3 dimensions at all, or is it all Terran surface


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with
sense, reason and intellect intended us to forego their use." - Galileo


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